Re: How to add crh.po, and tt@iqtel locale's .po for gettext

[Reshat Sabiq <tatar dot iqtelif dot i18n at gmail dot com>]

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Bruno Haible yazmÄÅ:
> Reshat Sabiq wrote:
>> There'd need to be over a million Crimean Tatars living in Turkey in
>> this list. Total population is about 4-to-6 million, from what i read,
>> but i'm not sure how it splits between Crimean and Idil-Ural Tatars.
> 
> Probably negligible compared to Ukraine and Uzbekistan:
> http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=TRA
> says "there are definitely some Crimean Tatar villages".

Hi Bruno,

I don't want to get into a polemic, but the ethnologue references you
have mentioned are obviously incorrect: definitely incorrect about
Crimean Tatar and Uzbek being officially in Cyrillic, and at least
misleading or unclear in terms of Crimean Tatar population in Turkey.
wikipedia, for instance, mentions a number of 5 million of Crimean Tatar
(also called Crimean Turk) descendants in Turkey:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Tatars
The reason ethnologue apparently is listing only 300K is because Crimean
Tatars living in Turkey are considered Turks. This makes sense, because
the people call themselves both ways, even those that live in Turkey:
QÄrÄmtatar, QÄrÄm TatarÄ, QÄrÄm TÃrkÃ. But they are still a part of the
rest of Crimean Tatars.
I don't have time to provide a convincing proof, which apparently needs
to be presented to correct such references, but here's one quote in Turkish:
"Anadolu'ya ve o dÃnemde tamamÄna yakÄnÄ TÃrk hÃkimiyeti allÄnda bulunan
Balkanlar'a gÃÃmeye baÅladÄlar, ilk gÃÃ dalgaÂsÄnda 300.000 kiÅi gÃÃ
etmiÅ: hu sayÄ 19. yÃzyÄlda l milyonu, arkasÄndan da l milyon 200 hini
bulmuÅtur."
It says first wave was 300K immigrants to Anatolia, and Balkans: this
number reached 1 million, and then 1.2 million in the 19th century.
http://www.turkhaber.org/tatar.html
Obviously, Crimean Turks (Tatars) living in Turkey, would not assimilate
(what are they going to assimilate into?). And they have not been
exterminated or exiled, as Stalin did. So their population should be at
least in the million range now.
As a compromise, i think the number of 2.1 million might make sense:
http://www.joshuaproject.net/peopctry.php

I found this reference on a Turkish site, where there was some
discontent that Turkish population is being categorized into ehtnic
subgroups, so i don't think this American apparently NGO can be accused
of being biased in favor of Crimean Tatars (Crimean Turks).


>>> I'd therefore recommend to use:
>>>   - for the glibc locales: the names crh_UA and crh_UZ.
>>>     Use Latin alphabet for crh_UA and Cyrillic one for crh_UZ.
>>>   - for the PO files (translations): Use crh_UA and crh_UZ as well, and
>>>     DON'T create PO files for 'crh'.
>> I think crh by default should be Latin, because it's official
> 
> You have shown an official decision by the Ukraine only. Regarding
> Uzbekistan, you haven't any facts.
> 
>> and in 
>> all 3 countries where Crimean Tatars mostly now live, Turkey, Crimea,
>> and Uzbekistan,
> 
> Forget about Turkey in this context. See above.
> 
>> Latin alphabet is pre-dominant. 'Ozbekiston also  
>> switched to Latin
> 
> Where do you got this from? Usually the script will be same as the
> one of the major language of the country, which in case of Uzbekistan
> is Cyrillic; see http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=uzn
Well, the whole alphabet issue of Turkic nations and especially Tatars
in the entire post-Soviet geography is close to my heart (if my chest
was opened, the Tatar alphabet issue might be imprinted on it ;) ). I
have followed this for many years, and know that in O'zbekiston  (sorry
i misspelled it before) language has officially adopted Latin alphabet
many years ago. Of course Cyrillic is still in use (more and more
marginally so), because it takes time to fully transition. But there is
no argument about what alphabet is official: it's Latin. Here's
O'zbekiston Hokimiyati (Government) site:
http://www.gov.uz/uz/
and a TV channel:
http://aqkopruk.4t.com/canli/Yoshlar_tv.html
and another one:
http://mtrk.uz/uz/online/tv/

> When
> people from the crh_UZ community appear and get interested in localization
> for glibc, you can discuss the issue with them. Until then, please
> care about crh_UA only.
I think given the above, there is a preponderance of evidence that crh
can be started in Latin by default. I definitely have nothing against
crh_UZ@cyrillic, or even crh_UZ (Cyrillic implied, even though i think
it would not be accurate), but i think it's quite clear that default
alphabet for Crimean Tatar is Latin.
Of course updating ethnologue and such is something that needs to be
looked into in time.

P.S. If someone told an average Tatar 5 centuries ago that there'd be
disputes about Tatar alphabet today, i wonder what would be his
reaction. ;) (:

Sincerely,
Reshat.

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