Re: [ECOS] How do you like eCos

["Lewin A.R.W. Edwards" <larwe at larwe dot com>]

Hello Robin,

>really want to use free tools and OSes, first try to think positive, and
>then accept to have to read source code, to understand how the damned
>things work (or, more often, why they don't), and even to fix bugs!

What you are saying here boils down to "it is free, therefore you must 
expect the quality to be below par", and I do not accept this. And really 
the only change I am proposing is very sensible: Whoever maintains a set of 
instructions for installing a set of tools should keep available for 
download a snapshot of the exact versions that the instructions reference. 
Yes, they will be out of date at the end of the week. But at least a person 
can get started. You can't learn how the tools work if you can't build them.

I was thinking very positive at the start, but in the face of zero results 
it is difficult to retain this state of mind.

The version of gcc and libc I'm using in our current product was compiled 
in 1996. It is ancient, but I see no need for upgrades. Iff (not a typo) we 
were having some problem attributable to compiler age then I would consider 
battling the make process to try to get an update built. With the current 
system, I don't get a choice.

>I know, Window$ users are not trained in understanding (because they do

That is an unfair comment. Just because I have written for Windows does not 
mean I am a new user unwrapping his first PC and installing AOL. Actually I 
got into Windows quite late, and I haven't written a line of code for the 
OS in more than  a year and a half (and I don't miss it...) In fact it is 
refreshing not to be a slave to Microsoft and undocumented APIs and 
concealed OS bugs. We are currently getting into Universal Plug'n'Pray and 
I am having feelings of deja vu, seeing the way MS is trying to leverage 
all its proprietary technologies into our project. It will be a cold day in 
hell before we put WinCE into our devices, though.

As for wanting to run devtools inside Windows, the simple fact is that most 
commercial apps are for Windows. So it is a significant disruption to my 
life to have to run two OSs on two PCs. Running Linux I can't just switch 
over to the circuit diagram or our intra-office email system or MS-Word to 
update a spec document. It is an appreciable drain on productivity.

I want to boot my board and debug my own code, not someone else's. I don't 
have the ability to tell five junior programmers "Go work out how to build 
the tools, you've got a month to do so".

I can't believe that my viewpoint is unique.


Lewin A.R.W. Edwards (Embedded Engineer)
Got any Commodore 16 or VIC-20 hardware, cartridges, tapes?
Visit http://www.larwe.com/vintage/
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